Okay, before we get started, I will go on record, here & now, that I am not a fan of big government. I believe limited government is good for our liberties as Americans. I believe that keeping taxes low is good for the overall economy. I believe we as a nation, our respective states, our counties, and our municipalities DO need to provide certain services - roads, national defense, law enforcement, etc. at the national level, more so at the state level, and even more so at the local levels. Locally is where things like fire protection should fall into the grand scheme of things. Should there be national standards for fire protection? Yes. But, it is up to the local juristictions to decide how much fire protection they want.
I don't know why it bothers me so much, but it really gripes my ass when I see people, who give no (or very little) background information on themselves, profess to being experts on how the Twin Towers collapsed. "It's a government conspiracy!" "Buildings don't just fall into their own foot prints!" "Tower 7 didn't have that much fire in it!" "They sure got those suspects together and released their information pretty fast!" ... and so forth & so on ...
I'm no fan of how our government is being run presently, and I do believe that
WE THE PEOPLE need to get off our collective asses and start getting smart with our electoral powers. I do believe that there are conspiracies at many levels of government. I do believe that there was a conspiracy to bring down those towers. Muslim extremists planned it. There were multiple people involved in the planning, training, and execution phases. Therefore, it was a
CONSPIRACY!
DUH!!! I haven't seen enough actual evidence to support that people in our own government would be involved with what happened.
I DO NOT believe there were bombs planted in those buildings. I DO believe the damage done by the crashes caused weakening, and the fires caused more, and then gravity took over. Tower 2 did not simply pancake collapse, its top section fell over, causing damage to surrounding buildings. Tower 1 did pancake collapse, but the damage also flew out in several directions, again, causing damage to surrounding buildings.
So, today, I got suckered into a pissing match on Facebook (yeah, dumb, I know, sorry...). The initial post was a picture of a huge skyscraper fire in Spain in 2005, and the question of why didn't it collapse vs the Twin Towers, which as we all know, did collapse.
Here is the picture that started the online pissing match.
I'm not going to put the whole debate in here, because, frankly, it's not worth it. Look it up on Facebook and chime in, if you wish. I'm not stopping you.
Here is what I posted in the debate. Someone asked about scientific data. Well, I'm no expert, and I'm not a career scientist, however, we all deal with science in one form or another when we respond to fires. We don't think about it that way, but it's true - we do.
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First some data:
767: fuel capacity 23,980 gallons;
max takeoff weight 395,000 lbs
empty weight 179,080 lbs
cruise speed 530 mph
And now mix in some science:
# to Kg = (wt/2) x 0.9
Kg to # = Kg x 1.1 x 2
M = (395000/2) x 0.9
M = 197200 x 0.9
M = 177480
V = 530 mph
V² = 280900
KE = ½ x M x V²
KE = ½ x 177480 x 530²
KE = ½ x 177480 x 280900
KE = ½ x
49854132000KE =
24927066000 kg
Now to convert to pounds of force:
Lbs = 24927066000 x 1.1 x 2
Lbs =
30161749860 x 2
Impact Force = 60,323,499,720#
Jet fuel gives off 126,000 BTUs/gallon. Even if, as been said, only 10,000gal on board at impact, that's still 1,260,000,000 BTUs. That kind of heat is enough to ignite office furnishings instantly, which is important, as some nay-sayers out there think the jet fuel burned off instantly.
I don't personally subscribe to the theory it burned off instantly, or the theory that there was only 10,000 gallons on board, but ok. To each their own.
Remember, most office furnishings these days have mainly plastics in one form or another, which, as I'm sure you know, is petroleum based. Carpeting, foam padding in furniture, drapery, etc. Computer systems also have high concentrations of plastic. Once plastic is hot enough to melt, it flows, just like gasoline does. (FWIW, gasoline is also petroleum based, but I'm sure you know that too.)
Here is some more scientific data (from
www.omafra.gov):
Energy Values of Various Materials
Material - Agricultural plastic film (wrap, bags, tubes, sheets) BTU/Pound - 18,500 - 19,500
Material - Wood BTU/Pound - 7,000 - 7,500
Material - Newspaper BTU/Pound - 8,000
How many pounds of plastic are in an average office? I don't know, but I think we can agree there is a lot. How many offices were there on those floors? Again, I don't know, but I think we can agree, quite a lot, especially since each floor of the Twin Towers was 40,000 ft². Now, take the weight of just the burning plastics and factor in the amount of BTUs given off, and I think you'll see my point - quite an excessive amount of heat.
The thing with heat - it compounds. Notice that I only mentioned burning plastics. Wooden doors, desks, chair components, etc would obviously also be burning. Same with the paper products, the victims' clothing, hair, wallets, & in some cases, perhaps the victims themselves. In a fire, it's not a contest between burning products to see who gives off the most heat. It's more like team work - each burning material contributes to the whole project, which in this case is the production of BTUs.
Now, compare the construction methods. The building in Spain was solid steel girders. (So is the Empire State Building, which on July 28th, 1945, was hit by a smaller, lighter B-25 Mitchell bomber that was lost in the fog.) The Twin Towers were steel trusses. Trusses are lighter, have significantly less mass, and as an INTACT system, stronger, together. Am important thing to note: the trusses aren't isolated - they service the entire area, and in some cases, the evite building. When enough strength is lost, it's not just the area of the failed truss that gives, it's the entire section.
Personally, however, I question just how intact the trusses were after receiving an impact force of 60,323,499,720#. That's over 60.3 BILLION pounds of force. Once a truss is damaged, the whole system is weakened. How much did each floor weigh?
How many trusses do you think were damaged just by SIXTY BILLION POUNDS of impact force? I dare day, several.
Someone out there is gonna pipe up and say the Twin Towers were built to withstand the impact of a 707.
Yup, they were.
Here is the math for a 707:
fuel capacity 23,000 gallons
max takeoff weight 328,060 lbs
empty weight 137,562 lbs
cruising speed 607 mph
M = (328060/2) x 0.9
M = 164030 x 0.9
M = 147627 kg
V = 607 mph
V²= 368449
KE = ½ x M x V²
KE = ½ x 147627 x 368449
KE = ½ x
5493020523KE =
27196510262 Kg
Lbs = 27196510262 x 1.1 x 2
Lbs =
29916161288 x 2
Impact Force = 59,832,322,576#
If a 707 hit a tower at its cruising speed of 607 mph, then it's impact force would be 59,832,322,576#. That's over 59.8 BILLION pounds of force. Yeah, I know, someone's gonna ask, "What's a half billion pounds here or there?" To me, that's still a significant difference. It could quite possibly be considered the straw that broke the perverbial camel's back.
An important point to ponder - the buildings were designed to withstand the accidental impact of a 707 taking off or approaching LaGuardia, JFK, or Newark. Approach speeds are nowhere near cruising speeds. Neither are take off speeds. While weight is important, speed is the factor in determining kinetic energy.
Now back to the topic of heat. Someone mistakenly posted it loses strength at 1200° F. Actually, that's technically inaccurate. Steel starts losing strength at 230° C, which is 446° F. "But Ken, there was concrete fire proofing on the trusses!" Yeah, there was,
BEFORE there was an impact with over
SIXTY BILLION POUNDS of force.
Speaking of heat, there are plenty of people who will say that there wasn't much fire, just smoke. Based on my professional experience, the amount of smoke coming from those towers was a sign of quite an advanced fire.
Smoke is the product of incomplete combustion. Smoke is essentially unburned fuel. One property of smoke - it is hot. Often it is
VERY hot! (Don't believe me? Next time you're having a bbq or camp fire, put your hand in the smoke - you'll feel heat, especially if it's where the smoke is exiting the bbq - the chimney, if you will.) Maybe not hot enough for the smoke to ignite, but at nearly 700° F, hot enough to heat objects, like steel trusses, to the point they lose strength.
Ok, my point to all this? Were the collapses that day the result of a conspiracy? Yes - the conspiracy of the extremists who flew the planes that day, transforming them into missiles. The collapses were the result of the fires.
Oh, my credentials: I've been a firefighter for over 24 years.
But what would I know. (Yes, that is sarcasm.)
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I can assure you, the self-professed experts immediately jumped on it. Ok, fine. I don't give a shit, it's their right to be wrong.
Here is a video link to raw footage taken by a news crew. In it you can see fires burning seperately on WTC #7 that are six floors apart. Tower 1 was still standing when this footage was shot. To my way of thinking, if you have heavy fire, six floors apart, either you have an arsonist (not likely) or a lot of shit rained down on that building when Towers 1 & 2 fell.
Earlier I said I don't know why it bothers me so much. Yes I do. It bothers me not just that 343 of our Brother Firefighters died THAT DAY, but also thousands of OUR COUNTRYMEN died that day too. It bothers me that folks get so tied up in their religion that they feel they must kill others so that they can go to Heaven. It bothers me that they feel that they can do what ever they feel like to try to wreck our economy and make us conform to their way of thinking, just because they think they are morally straight. It's all contradictory. How can they live with themselves?
Ok, enough. I'm logging off now.
Thanks for reading. Stay safe.
God bless you.
Ken